| Theory |
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Guerrilla Warriors -- "Good Guys" or "Assholes"? March 5, 2005 by RedStar2000 |
So what's the communist position on groups like "Shining Path" in Peru or the FARC in Colombia?
Are they simply "narco-terrorists", as the United States government asserts?
Or are they genuine anti-imperialists who will at the very least liberate their countries of American-sponsored despotism? And thus contribute to the general weakening of the American Empire?
One does not need to fall prey to Maoist illusions to give credit where credit is due.
As I show in this exchange.
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I know they killed priests, mayors, and other people of high ranking.
Revolutionaries are sort of known for that kind of behavior.
Frankly, I know very little about them...but if they can make a come-back and overthrow the U.S. puppet regime in Peru, then good for them!
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First posted at RevLeft on February 25, 2005
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Come on, I thought that you wouldn't bother 'breaking a fingernail' to contribute to that sort of uber-vanguardist bunch of murderers revolution?
The Shining Path seem to be nothing more than a bunch of cold-blooded killers who randomly kill proportions of rural populations to scare the people into submission. If they get into power they'll be no different.
You misunderstand...deliberately?
The charge of "cold-blooded murder" is routinely made against all who seek to overthrow the prevailing social order everywhere through the use of guerrilla warfare. You can find a whole bunch of sites that will tell you that Che was "nothing but a cold-blooded killer".
The irony of this is that almost all revolutionary guerrilla groups started out using peaceful, legal methods...and were driven to take up arms by the state terrorism of the existing regimes (puppets of U.S. imperialism).
Shining Path is a Maoist group...presumably, if they succeed, they will establish a socialist despotism along the lines of Mao's China, economically develop Peru independently of U.S. imperialism and its lackeys, establish social welfare measures similar to those that China used to have, etc. Eventually, they'll develop into a strong native bourgeoisie and Peru will take its place in the world as a modern capitalist country.
The important part of all that to me is that a victory by Shining Path will be another defeat for U.S. imperialism...advancing the date for a real communist revolution in the United States.
You understand what I'm getting at here? From a communist standpoint, Maoism is crap -- though it will probably serve to develop Peru better than the American quislings that run it now. But Maoism in the "third world" weakens U.S. imperialism...and that's what really counts!
As long as U.S. imperialism is successful, most American workers will emotionally identify with it and support it...and we will have continuing difficulties accomplishing anything. But continuing defeats for imperialism will break that emotional identification...and the American working class will start listening to us instead of to their masters.
Therefore, it is in our class interests for Shining Path or some other revolutionary guerrilla group to win in Peru.
And therefore I am more than happy to cheer them on...without any illusions about what they will do after they come to power.
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First posted at RevLeft on February 25, 2005
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12,561 Innocent civilians have died at the hands of the Shining Path.
Gee, you've been keeping score...and you actually claim to "know" that they were all "innocent" civilians too.
Well, what's the tally on the other side? How many innocent civilians have the Peruvian military and police killed?
How many innocent civilians in Peru die on a daily basis as a consequence of the normal operation of imperialist exploitation?
If you want to be a revolutionary, you have to look at the totality.
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Shining Path "has bombed police headquarters and municipal offices, gas stations and middle-class apartment buildings, think tanks and public schools. It has paralyzed the country with so-called armed strikes, and set fire to bus drivers who defied its orders to stay at home on strike days. It has murdered peasant families and leftist leaders. Most often, victims are killed in full view of their family or community. Sometimes they are hanged and sometimes shot, but often an execution-squad member in many cases a woman delivers the coup de grace with a knife. Sometimes the tail of a live cat will be set on fire and then the animal will be let loose on a field of corn ready for picking. Sometimes a man who has just finished casting a mandatory vote in a national election will have the finger with the telltale electoral ink hacked off." Source: Alma Guillermoprieto, "Letter from Lima: Down the Shining Path"
Did Shining Path ask for your advice on how to wage their struggle? For some reason, they didn't ask mine.
I personally don't approve of setting fire to a cat; I wouldn't do that.
The rest of those things don't bother me.
Remember that guerrilla warfare is not "romantic"...it's dirty!
What do you think the Peruvian military does to peasants suspected of supporting the guerrillas? (Hint: they don't give them a big hug and a wet kiss.)
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First posted at RevLeft on February 25, 2005
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Using this logic, I could make the argument that the Nazis never asked for your opinions regarding Jews.
No you couldn't...because I am not an anti-semite.
In fact, there are plenty of anti-semites out there today who "disagree" with Nazi "methods" but who share the same goals. They could make that argument -- "the Nazis should have asked my advice" -- but you cannot make that argument about me.
I agree with Shining Path in their struggle to overthrow the American puppet regime...and I can fairly and logically point out that they didn't ask me as to the best way to do that.
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It doesn't have to be as dirty as the Shining Path's methods. A lot of the stuff they did simply can't be excused.
Then don't excuse it.
So far, the only really bad thing, in my view, that the critics of Shining Path have come up with is setting fire to cats (I wonder if that actually happened).
And I'm starting to notice a pattern of evasion here. Where's the indignation over the deeds of the Peruvian military and police???
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First posted at RevLeft on February 25, 2005
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I hope that SL and all Senderistas will get shot and die a long and painful death. They have killed lots of my wife's relatives who are from Ayacucho.
For all we on this board know, your wife's relatives could have had it coming.
I have noticed that when gusanos come here to post, their biggest complaint about Castro is that he took the wealth away from their fucking relatives.
Your personal gripes have no relevance to a political analysis of the significance of Shining Path.
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So then, just for the record, You don't think that the following is bad...
How would I know? The American quislings in Lima say that Shining Path has done "terrible things" and you believe them?
On what grounds? Their reputation for truthfulness??? *laughs*
If I was there, saw things first hand, understood what the objectives were, why the decisions were made to attack this target or that, etc., THEN I could express an opinion with some confidence.
Those of you who wish to erect your tents "on the moral high ground" are certainly free to do so...but nothing you have to say is going to mean anything in the struggle against U.S. imperialism.
No doubt it would be a lot easier to support an "ideal revolutionary movement" that always behaved perfectly -- and some folks are so naive as to think that any movement they support actually does "behave perfectly". The way some Maoists talk, you'd think the Maoists in China all behaved like fucking saints.
I'll repeat what I said before: guerrilla warfare is not romantic, it's dirty! Peasants are not humanitarians; in fact, peasant revolutions are pretty notorious for their brutality. From a historical view, Shining Path, the FARC, etc. are probably well above average in their conduct of their wars. You should read some of the stuff written about the Russian and Chinese civil wars! Or the civil wars in Africa!
I don't mean to be "harsh" here...but I think it's necessary to understand how really harsh the ruling elites actually are. Their brutalities far exceed even the most brutal of their revolutionary opponents.
If Shining Path wins -- driving U.S. imperialism out of that country -- then no one with any sense is going to care how they did it.
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First posted at RevLeft on February 27, 2005
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If you are fighting against imperialist ideology, and their general actions against humanity, then you are fighting for morals.
No, afraid not.
You may, if you so desire, oppose imperialism on "moral" grounds...and they certainly earn your opposition.
But I am not fighting for "moral supremacy" but real, practical supremacy -- to see them utterly defeated and eliminated from the face of the planet.
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If [blah, blah, blah] you are no better than they are.
Ok. If imperialism gets defeated, then anyone who wants to wag their finger of moral disapproval at me is free to do so.
I promise to lose at least 10 seconds of sleep over that. *laughs*
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If these individuals are capable of using intimidation and brutal force against a civilian population, how can anyone trust them in power?
Don't ask me, ask the Peruvians! In fact, ask them how they can "trust" the imperialist lackeys that run their country now?
I "trust" Shining Path to weaken U.S. imperialism if and when they come to power...at least for a while.
That's "good enough" for me.
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If I was part of a revolutionary movement in America, and I came into your house, tied your wife up and shot her in the head in front of you, oh but wait....before you jump to conclusions, my movement did drive imperialist forces out. So intimidation and murder was justified.
A moronic "if"...as I am not a collaborator with imperialism.
And, judging from your posts thus far on this board, you will be "a part of a revolutionary movement" when pigs learn to fly.
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First posted at RevLeft on February 28, 2005
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Red Star get a clue buddy. ALL I am saying is that being a Colombian and knowing the people of my country that the FARC will never succeed if the violence continues against the population.
You may or may not be right. My crystal ball has never worked worth a damn.
But you've filled up a couple of pages of this thread with reports that FARC kills preachers, priests, and even an arch-bishop.
Knowing my opinions of superstition, do you honestly expect that I am likely to find that "horrible" or "inexcusable"???
Would you like to speculate on how many priests were killed by anarchists in the Spanish Civil War?
Or why that was done?
I don't know the number (much larger than in Colombia, that's for sure!)...but I do know why: they supported Franco!
Does that give you "a clue"?
Where are the professional godsuckers always found if not on the side of reaction?
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First posted at RevLeft on February 28, 2005
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After decades of violence the Colombian people just want Peace.
Setting aside your claim to speak for the people of Colombia, it's not going to happen...not even with an American soldier on every street corner.
If the "peace" of American tyranny appeals to you, try El Salvador...or any one of a still large but shrinking list of imperial provinces where "order" is still "maintained".
You live in a violent world...and you'd better get used to it because it's going to get a lot more violent.
For example, one of the things that U.S. imperialism would like to arrange is a Colombian invasion of Venezuela to overthrow Chavez.
Going to volunteer?
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Shining Path are a bunch of lunatic stalinist nutcases which should be shot in my opinion (the opinion of a fuckin commie). Shining Path is discrediting the revolution, so does FARC by the way, motherfuckers.
I try, I really do (stop laughing!) to be patient with newbies...but what is to be made of a mindless rant like this?
Shining Path, the FARC, the ELN, etc. are fighting the puppet regimes imposed on their countries by U.S. imperialism.
Perhaps they are doing "a poor job" of it. Perhaps their tactics are "self-defeating". Perhaps they really are "discrediting" the revolution.
No one else is fighting against U.S. imperialism there at all!
But we have no shortage of people who come to this board (!) and want them defeated by the present quislings and their American masters.
What kind of "communists" are these?
"U.S. imperialism is bad but the people fighting it are even worse...Long Live U.S. Imperialism!?!"
Maybe it was a mistake to change the name of this board and we should go back to the old name Che-Lives.
We're getting too many lackeys now.
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First posted at RevLeft on February 28, 2005
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I really see no difference between killing a priest and killing a banker.
True.
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With this attitude Revolution will NEVER work in Colombia. My country is 98% Catholic, Religion and Their Belief in God is the ONLY thing many people have.
Just thought I would throw this quote in there as well.
"Where do the contradictions between Christian teachings and socialist teachings lie? Where? We both wish to struggle on behalf of humanity, for the welfare of humanity, for the happiness of humanity." - Fidel Castro
To say that religion is the "only thing" that the Colombian people have is to say that effectively they have nothing!
Something that any visitor to that country can quickly confirm just by looking around.
As to Fidel...well, the man is getting old. (I know, so am I!) We should not hold people in their dotage responsible for some of the foolish things they might say. When Fidel was in his prime, it's unlikely if not impossible that he ever uttered such meaningless babble.
(Note that even Marx said some foolish things towards the end of his life...he wrote a letter to some Russian agrarian reformer suggesting the possibility that Russia could "skip capitalism" -- something I don't think he ever would have done while in full possession of his faculties.)
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But okay...us Peruvians and Colombians who have either witnessed or been directly/indirectly in contact with these kind of movements are not true revolutionaries...we should agree with the killings committed by SL and FARC because they are against the US...okay...maybe that is the reason why these groups are not getting the support of the people. This support which is vital for guerrilla warfare, the guerrilla fights for the people, not to simply enforce his ideology on them or else killing them...
All you're saying here is that you disapprove of their tactics.
Fair enough...where's your "better" movement?
Show me someone who's doing a better job of fighting U.S. imperialism in those countries and I'll embrace your position: screw FARC or the SL, I'll support the _____________________!
Revolutionaries are humans, not "gods". When they fuck up, they should be criticized...even harshly.
But that doesn't mean you turn around and side with the imperialists!
Ever!
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First posted at RevLeft on March 1, 2005
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No one else is fighting U.S. imperialism? Now what do you call the EZLN? Hugo Chavez?
I call the EZLN Mexicans.
I call Hugo Chavez a left-bourgeois reformist who happens to be president of Venezuela.
To the extent and only to the extent that they resist U.S. imperialism, I support them and wish them well.
Neither have done very much...so far.
There's been no noticeable change in the class structure of either Mexico or Venezuela...so far.
And neither of them have, to my knowledge, anything to do with revolutionary struggle in Colombia or Peru...so far.
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FACE IT! FARC, ELN, SHINING PATH ARE FUCKING ASSHOLES
And what's that make you?
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That's the dumbest thing I ever heard
What else can you be implying? If the FARC, the ELN, and the SL are all "fucking assholes", then it logically follows you must want them to be defeated...and if they are defeated, then it logically follows that U.S. imperialism wins.
I don't think you're in any position to be calling anyone "dumb" at this point.
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As Socialists we are striving for the well being of ALL men and do not accept that "Well that is life so fucking deal with it" attitude.
Well, I'm a Marxist...so I tend to pay attention to things as they are. I am not concerned with "the well-being of ALL men" but rather ridding the planet of a parasitic class of exploiters and murderers.
I figure if we can do that much, then we'll have an idea of what more is possible in the future.
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Marxism is far too rigid and ONLY a guide and should NOT be taken literally.
Whenever somebody says that, everyone's skepticism alarm should start ringing immediately.
Why?
Because while sometimes that is said as a preface to a scholarly critique of some aspect of Marxist economics, historical materialism, or even "dialectics" -- almost always what is about to be said is something along the lines of...revolution is really a kind of bad idea.
We're about to be told the free market sort of works ok or maybe we could work out a deal with imperialism or capitalists are people too.
It's not Marxism as a philosophy or as history or as sociology or even as economic theory that bothers these people...it's that fucking revolution stuff that they don't want to hear!
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You are NOT and never will be able to have a Revolution in a country of 40 million people with 98% of them Catholic by committing atrocities against members of the church. If this were to happen than it makes you NO better than the Imperialists for imposing censorship and law trying to take away their religious beliefs.
First you say "it can't be done". (I guess "God" will stop it from happening if the imperialists are not up to the task.)
Then you say that if it does happen anyway, it will be "just as bad as the imperialists".
Taking away religious beliefs is "just as bad" as "taking away" food, water, electricity, education, health care...all the things that most people in Colombia are deprived of by imperialism.
That's an interesting set of priorities you have there.
Under imperialism, of course, you can have all the religious belief you want.
Work and pray,
live on hay.
You'll get pie in the sky when you die.
(That's a lie!)
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...religion has done many good things in the past, and continues to do so in the present.
ROFLMAO!
No wonder you guys hate SL, FARC, and ELN so much...they're all interfering with the god racket.
Horrors!
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With age comes wisdom.
Sometimes. Usually with age comes senility.
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As a Colombian all I am saying is that a Revolution that takes away the people's faith and identity is destined for failure. For it to be successful the Church must be accepted by Revolutionaries.
Gotcha! Think I didn't see you slip in that "identity" word?
What you're trying to hint at is the proposition that "to be Colombian is to be Catholic" or even "to be Latin American is to be Catholic".
That's llama shit!
The Catholic hucksters used to work that same con on the Italians and the Spanish...but they've mostly seen through it. Even the Irish are (slowly) getting over it. In Europe, only the Poles are still being thoroughly victimized by that sleazy and cynical conflation of nationality and superstition.
There's a ways to go yet in Latin America...no question about it. But the arch-bishop of Buenos Aires has been pissing and moaning for the last couple of years about the empty cathedrals there.
Progress is being made.
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First posted at RevLeft on March 1, 2005
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You have no idea of the nature of my country. You sit back and read Marx and have no real knowledge of the problems at hand.
Yes, I "sit back and read Marx" whenever I have the chance. You should try it yourself sometime.
No, I have no "first-hand" knowledge of Colombia or Peru or most of the planet, for that matter. In comparison to the amount of knowledge actually available, most of us don't even know 0.00001 per cent.
But it's certainly clear that Colombia has a big problem if your words can be trusted...gross superstitious ignorance.
I wouldn't expect you to join up with the FARC or the ELN (you're obviously not a revolutionary)...but you could help matters by going back there and starting an "Atheist Institute" or a "Society for the Advancement of Scientific Thinking" or something like that.
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Yes, Cultural Theft can be VERY dangerous and in no way can it be justified.
"Cultural Theft"?
"Dangerous" in what way?
So when the Romans claimed to have stopped the Celts from practicing human sacrifice, that was a "bad thing"? (I say "claimed" because the only evidence for human sacrifice among the Celts comes from the Romans.) Or when the Spaniards stopped the Aztecs from practicing human sacrifice, that was a "bad thing"? Or when the British stopped (partially) the Hindu practice of burning widows to death, that was a "bad thing"?
I think "cultural theft" can always be "justified" -- provided that what is being taken away is a real load of crap...which religion always is.
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Don't impose your will upon others just as the Imperialists have.
Excuse me? I have "imposed my will" on no one.
But if the FARC and the ELN are striking sharp blows against superstition...that is, in my view, a very good thing and I hope they do it a lot more!
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They [EZLN] are still surrounded today, but continue their righteous struggle for equal rights for the indigenous and an end to capitalism.
That's nice.
But it's not quite the same thing as Fidel marching into Havana.
I'm not "opposed" to the EZLN...I'm just waiting to see if they launch a serious insurrection or not.
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FARC, ELN, etc. are actually sustaining US imperialism, can't you see?
Um...no, I can't see that at all. Have you been nipping at the "dialectics" again?
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By doing this, FARC, etc. makes sure, in its own way, that people start to think "well, at least the US is better than FARC, at least there can be peace under oppression by the US, instead of war under oppression by the FARC".
Your insight is truly remarkable. *laughs*
It never occurred to me that by fighting imperialism, we "make sure" that people will "prefer imperialism" because "it's peaceful".
Maybe we could extend that principle all over the world: just submit to imperialism and peace will prevail.
That is what they're always telling us, right?
And they wouldn't lie, would they?
Well, would they???
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First posted at RevLeft on March 1, 2005
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And say whatever you want, but the core of most religions (including Islam and Christianity) is EQUALITY (all people are children of God) and love.
More llama shit!
Like many, you have a handful of "cherished quotations" from this or that "holy book" and complete ignorance of the totality of those books or how they have been implemented in practice.
Go have a look at this site and see how "loving" the "Bible" really is (and the Koran is there too)...
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html
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Why? So he can turn off his mind and obey his leaders?
Well, he's obviously already "turned his mind off" with regard to superstition...if he's going to "obey leaders", it's better to obey Maoists than arch-bishops, isn't it?
If you want an anti-imperialist revolution in Colombia, that is.
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FARC is no longer an organisation with true socialist principles, it has thrown them all away in the conquest of power, and, by doing so, lost its relevance.
If FARC has "lost its relevance", then why doesn't it just "fade away"? Why are we still talking about it?
That's generally what happens when movements "lose their relevance"...people vote with their feet and, after a while, the movement dwindles into a tiny sect and ultimately just disappears into the mists of time.
Or do you wish to contend that FARC is just a "mafia gang"...that only greed is holding it together? Then why don't they act like the Mafia? They should be taking over the cocaine trade instead of just taxing it.
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Superstition? Perhaps, but let people believe what they want to believe, religion can do many good things...
Name one. *laughs*
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Yeah and look how Cuba ended up, not exactly your workers' paradise.
No, and never could have been under the circumstances.
But they have accomplished a few things nevertheless.
Are you suggesting that the Cuban revolutionaries "should" have just stayed in the mountains and established tiny "communes"...like the EZLN?
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They are driven into the hands of the US by the shit FARC does.
So you're not hoping the U.S. wins, you just think that such is the inevitable outcome of the FARC's "bad tactics", right?
Well, that could happen...you could be right. But as long as the FARC, the ELN, and the SL keep fighting against the U.S. puppet regimes, I am happy to support them and I hope they will win.
Not because I think they will establish a "workers' paradise" but because their victories will weaken imperialism.
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Yeah you with your self righteous, book smart, "I know it all better than you" attitude.
Well, I am "book smart" and you're not. Thus, it's highly likely that I do "know it all" better than you.
If you're unhappy with that, then read some books and learn some things about peasant revolutions and what they're really like.
Instead of quivering in moral indignation because the FARC kills priests.
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First posted at RevLeft on March 2, 2005
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You can regurgitate Marx all day and try your best to apply it to the situation in Colombia but have NO clue because you have never been there and seen for yourself.
So no one can say anything useful about another country unless they've "been there".
Clearly, my biggest "crime" in your eyes is obviously having the monumental gall to suggest that Colombia is not on another planet...that Marx's ideas "actually apply" even to the truly "unique" and "exceptional" land of Colombia.
Gasp! Choke! Outrage!!!
Marx's ideas apply everywhere...except in courses offered by bourgeois sociology departments.
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That is IGNORANCE of monumental proportions, especially given your lack of knowledge of Colombia.
It is indeed ignorance...but not of Colombia. I thought you might want to at least help things along in a progressive direction there...clearly I was ignorant of how much you like things "the way they are".
Maybe after you graduate, you can get a job with the new arch-bishop.
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I am sure the masses are going to drop everything to be at YOUR command.
I have not asked them to.
I do rather persistently (and annoyingly!) nag the masses to quit acting like sheep and get up on their hind legs like humans.
It's "a dirty job" but "someone's got to do it".
Clearly, guys like you two won't help.
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You really need to do your homework on Colombia. No, I think you need to visit. Tell everyone how you are going to strip them of their religious beliefs because you think it is a load of bullshit. You would last about 15 min before someone would bust a cap in your ass.
The FARC would avenge me! *laughs*
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You should really investigate this more and look at the rough figures the FARC make per year.
Since it's unlikely that the FARC makes its finances public, the only source for such "information" would be "estimates" made by either the U.S. government or by its Colombian quislings.
Neither of which are particularly well-known for their "truthfulness".
Rather the opposite, right?
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Any idea where the leaders of the FARC send their children to school? They go to some of the BEST private schools in Europe. While other family members live lavishly in Europe as well.
Stale "news". The gusanos say the same things about Castro et.al.
Sure, it "might" be true...sort of. There's no reliable way of finding out.
That doesn't alter the fact that the FARC is fighting U.S. imperialism in Colombia. And Shining Path is doing the same thing in Peru.
You guys are not only not doing that...but have not offered so much as a hint about what you think "ought" to be done in Colombia or Peru.
You appear to wish that the FARC, ELN, SL would all just "go away"...and then what?
You're both just like those people who say "U.S. imperialism is terrible in Iraq...but the resistance is even worse."
Whether you feel comfortable with your position is irrelevant; you have de facto decided to support U.S. imperialism against its open enemies.
In my estimation, that makes both of you fake lefties.
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First posted at RevLeft on March 2, 2005
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Simply pointing out you have NO clue about the FARC and their acts in the name of Social Justice. Also that your assertions of a Stalinist State and trying to get it through your thick skull that will never work nor happen in Colombia.
Well. you've spent a considerable amount of time telling us that the FARC kills priests. What you haven't explained is why that's a "bad thing"...except a lot of drivel about how "being Colombian is being Catholic".
As to a "Stalinist State -- more precisely, a Maoist state -- "not working" or "not happening" in Colombia...I don't see why not. Material conditions in Colombia are very similar to other countries where Maoism has been relatively successful: a large and impoverished peasantry, a small urban working class, a tiny elite of what Maoists call a "comprador bourgeoisie" -- capitalists who exist as "local agents" for international capital -- and a "traditional" (corrupt) land-owning oligarchy.
It's a pattern repeated all over the world...why should Colombia be any different?
Maoism is not communism of course...if Marx was right, communism is only possible when capitalism has exhausted its potential to further the development of the means of production.
And it (Maoism) is not even a very "good" form of socialism; approximate economic equality in a poor country means that almost everyone is poor (cf. Cuba)...just not as poor as they would be if they lived under the dominion of an imperialist country.
But the Maoists, if they win, will develop the Colombian (and Peruvian) economy far more quickly, rapidly and humanely than the American imperialists. People will be taught to read and they will get to see a doctor and they will have the chance to learn something about the real world (instead of superstitious nonsense), etc. Life expectancy will climb sharply; infant mortality will fall; clean water will become available; etc.
If China itself is any example, the Maoists will probably wipe out the drug trade in Colombia and Peru altogether...at least in and around the urban areas. And Maoism is very harsh on street crime...so I don't expect there'll be very much of it around "after their revolution".
Would I want to live in a FARC/ELN Colombia or a SL Peru? Of course not. I am a North American and used to North American standards-of-living. Maoism would seem unbearably oppressive to me.
But for the millions of truly destitute people who do live in those countries, Maoism would seem to them to be "a great leap forward" from life as lived in an American neo-colony.
As indeed, in actual fact, it would be.
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True Marxism would require Mankind to take a huge leap backwards to a part of human history better known as the" Hunting And Gathering" stage.
This is what they're teaching you in your sociology department?
Obviously, they (and you) don't know Marxism from rheumatism.
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How does technology fit into your practice of Marxism?
Communist society will be more "high-tech" than capitalism.
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What do YOU propose as the solution for Colombia?
At the moment, the best step forward would probably be a merger of the FARC and the ELN, followed by a united struggle against the U.S. and its puppet regime.
I would concentrate especially on targets associated with the U.S. -- including American "civilians".
And keep on shooting those damn priests!
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I am NOT a religious person at ALL.
Then, by your own logic, you are "no longer Colombian". You've "lost" your "cultural identity".
Which gives you exactly the same right to pontificate about the will of the Colombian people as I have.
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The FARC WILL NEED TO CHANGE THEIR TACTICS. Embrace the people rather than murder and scare the hell out of them.
Well, you assert that everyone is "scared" of the FARC. I would think a lot more people would be scared of the government, its para-militaries, and the United States. All three have done a lot more killing than the FARC.
How much less killing could the FARC do and still survive as a guerrilla movement?
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In my estimation you are a little high school punk who has read Marx and hold it as the be all and end all solution without any other notion or consideration of other sociological theories and paradigms.
I love it when people call me "a little high school punk".
It means that after six decades of life, I haven't "lost my edge".
Thank you! *big grin*
quote:
You can throw those quotations at my head the same way the racist fascists do in my country, but it still wont change my mind about religion.
Some heads are just solid concrete and no amount of knowledge will every have an impact on them.
Too bad.
quote:
...mindlessly obeying someone else is wrong, doesn't matter who's the leader.
True...but religion says just the opposite.
And always has.
quote:
FARC has lost its relevance for the revolution because it no longer represents it, not because it no longer exists.
Well, they (in FARC) disagree with your assertion.
Maybe you should write them a letter and tell them to "give up and go home".
Just in passing, who does "represent the revolution" in Colombia these days?
quote:
Zakat in Islam (the compulsory giving of a set proportion of one's wealth to charity)...
Charity? We're talking about revolution here and you want to bring up charity?
Charity has sure accomplished a whole fuck of a lot in the Muslim world, hasn't it?
Or for that matter, the whole fucking planet.
I'd tell you where you could shove your charity...but I think you already know.
quote:
Such a revolution is not attained by military victories, but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.
That's what the American imperialists used to say about Vietnam -- "we have to win the hearts and minds of the people".
The Vietnamese revolutionaries demonstrated that the best way to "win hearts and minds" is to defeat the imperialists and drive them out!
With regard to Colombia and Peru (and many other places), it's something to think about.
A Speculation
It is possible that I was premature -- or even wrong -- in labeling you guys as "fake-leftists".
Why? Well, both of you guys are Latin Americans who now reside in advanced capitalist countries, right?
And in those countries, the "war on terrorism" is very much "a big deal".
And guerrilla revolutionaries in the "third world" are "on the list" -- officially designated "terrorists".
So...you both want to stay "where the living is easy" (or "easier") and not be deported back to your native countries -- thus you can't afford to be associated with any "terrorist" group...not even on a message board.
Even if you privately hope that the FARC or the Shining Path wins, you don't dare say so. In fact, condemning FARC/ELN/SL "terrorism" is a matter of personal self-protection from the "anti-terrorist" gestapo.
You see, over the years I've seen a few articles about the guerrillas in Colombia, Peru, etc. In fact, there's a good example in the current issue of Harper's Magazine (March 2005, pp. 20-24). These kinds of articles contain a lot of praise for the guerrillas and life in the "liberated zones"...but always seem to end with a coda -- "but then it just all turned into meaningless violence for the sake of violence, so I quit."
And it occurred to me: what else could they say that wouldn't risk immediate arrest, torture, even death?
A Colombian or a Peruvian cannot publicly endorse the FARC, the ELN, or the SL without the terrible risk of being labeled "a supporter of terrorism".
As I say, this is all entirely speculative...only if one of these guerrilla groups wins can it be shown to be true -- at least in some cases.
But it's also something for communists to keep in mind...what people say "who have been there" may not be "entirely objective".
We not only live in a violent world...but also a very treacherous one.
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First posted at RevLeft on March 4, 2005
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quote:
Murder is Murder
No...that's simply not true.
It's a simple-minded "declaration of faith" that has no relationship to the real world at all.
There were actually eight (at least) attempts to assassinate Hitler.
Had one of them succeeded, would you cry "Murder is Murder"?
quote:
I am still waiting for that ONE example [of] true MARXISM that has worked!?!
Hasn't happened yet...as you very well know.
On the other hand, Maoists have "adapted" Marxism to promote peasant-based anti-imperialist revolutions.
And those have worked. Mao and his followers won in China, Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. They have active guerrillas in the field in the Philippines, Colombia, Peru, and Nepal. Even Cuba was actually a case of a kind of "soft Maoism".
The working class in countries like Colombia and Peru is still too small for "true Marxism" to be applicable; but the Maoist "version" has a genuine chance of winning.
No one else is even in the game.
quote:
How please explain?
You are asking me to "explain" how communism will be more "high-tech" than capitalism?
You want details???
Well, to start with, no communist or any other sensible person wants to live in a "low-tech" society...it sucks!
So are you (or your sociology professors) implying that technological progress is "only possible" under capitalism???
quote:
No, I am not religious because I choose NOT to be and that does not make me any less Colombian. And for the 98% Catholics they are that because they choose to.
So you are withdrawing that claim about "cultural identity" -- you now say that one can be an atheist and still "be Colombian".
Now, consider that "98% Catholic" group. How many of them converted to Catholicism as adults and how many of them had that llama shit shoved down their throats when they were defenseless children???
"Choose to be" my ass!
quote:
Well it sure is strange that the cities have seen an overwhelming increase in peasants from Guerrilla and AUC controlled areas.
Peasants move to cities whenever they can all over the world. As a matter of fact, by the middle of this century, the urban population will become a majority of the world's total population (if present trends continue).
Rural poverty really sucks!
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First posted at RevLeft on March 4, 2005
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